Green Automotive bringing electric shuttles to US market as part of broad strategy

Newport Coachworks image on GAC websiteWe’ve certainly seen quite a few startup OEMs and battery makers go belly up in the electric vehicle space in the past three years. To survive and thrive in this newfound industry, building reliable, high performance product, marketing and “messaging” in a way that resonates with the core audience, and having solid financials, are key ingredients.

Green Automotive Company (GAC) is the holding company for three units – Liberty Electric Cars and GoinGreen in the UK and Newport Coachworks in the US. Ian Hobday, director of GAC, says the holding company has a business strategy of going “back to basics.” A steady cash flow is needed for EV makers, and each of GAC’s business units have revenue streams beyond EVs. “You can’t have 100 percent of your focus on EVs,” he said. “The volume’s not strong enough yet.”

His initial company, Liberty Electric Cars, was acquired last year by GAC and brings about eight years of experience in the European market to the table. It’s been delivering electric vehicles to customers in Europe for several years, and has other diverse offerings on the market including all Electric Range Rover conversions.

In November, Newport Coachworks will start building electric shuttle buses at its production facility in Riverside, Calif. The Newport Coachworks team has been in the bus market for years and was recently acquired by GAC. While most of the buses in chauffeured transportation tend to be converted from Ford E450 or F550 platforms, Newport Coachworks will be building its own electric buses from the ground up. Newport is tapping into Liberty’s experience delivering electric vehicles to parcel delivery and postal fleets, and to plumbers, gardeners, decorators, and other business customers. The shuttle bus is powered by an 80 kilowatt battery pack that goes about 100 miles on a charge; the A/C unit doesn’t need extra power during the trips as it has its own source, Hobday said.

What GAC is finding out is that customers appreciate the cost per mile differential with electrics buses – 14.5 cents per mile for typical shuttle buses and 2.5 cents per mile for electric shuttles. Drivers also love the fact that the electric bus has no vibration or noise – they feel more relaxed while doing their jobs, Hobday said.

A number of clients have been using GAC’s drivetrains in their own vehicles, including OEMs in Europe. They’ve also been accessing the Liberty E-Care service offering, which provides service and support for EVs already on the roadfrom trained and skilled technicians equipped with customized diagnostic tools.

GAC found California to be a smart place to launch its electric shuttle buses in the US market. It’s the largest market so far in the US for electric vehicles, and there’s incentives and support for the technology within the state. The company is also focused on getting as close to 100% as possible in using American parts and labor in its vehicles. GAC has been working with manufacturers of lithium ion battery cell makers such as Dow Kokam on its electric Range Rovers. GAC wants access to inherently safe, high energy density cells from US suppliers. “Why go to China? It’s much cheaper, but the failure rate is higher,” Hobday said.

GoinGreen is GAC’s retailer network in the UK. It offers a wide gamut of EV products – city buses, bikes, scooters, and city cars. It will be coming to California then launching a global rollout. As GAC acquired Liberty and GoinGreen, the idea was to consolidate operations, reach economies of scale, and to cover all the basics – from manufacturing electric powertrains and conversions, servicing the vehicles, and expanding retail store fronts. GAC serves the internal combustion engine sector, as well. As GAC and other thriving players in the EV market (i.e., Tesla Motors) know very well, good solid profits are required for EV makers to survive and thrive.

Don’t shoot me, I’m only the messenger! Why you should read John DeCicco’s commentary

Obama driving Chevy VoltThere’s an article you should read, even though many of you are going to hate it.

John DeCicco gets very blunt and criticizes the Obama Administration’s push for electric vehicles and alternative fuel vehicles – along with presidential programs going back to Ronald Reagan that he says were a waste of taxpayer’s money. Government subsidies and mandates haven’t worked, he says. He lambastes Obama administration policies, which are usually considered to be very green. He thinks that the policies are “under the misguided presumption that alternative fuels emit significantly fewer greenhouse gases than gasoline, and goaded by green groups and alternative fuel business interests.”

I do think you should take DeCicco and his article in a Yale University journal very seriously. He’s a noted academic researcher, has been a senior fellow at Environmental Defense Fund, and he pioneered US green car ratings for the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy.

He thinks the best way to go will need a three-prong strategy:  1. Continue to raise fuel economy standards. 2. Implement policies that will reduce driving. 3. Control carbon upstream in energy and fuels used downstream in our daily lives.

As for the upstream/downstream argument, he thinks much of it boils down to the source of the energy. DeCicco makes the classic argument about the downside of EVs. About two thirds of the electricity that powers plug-in electric vehicles comes from fossil fuels – coal and natural gas – which removes the good side of EVs. Carbon emissions need to be cut down at electricity power plants – although he does acknowledge that this is included in Obama’s new climate plan.

And, of course, he rips into biofuels:  “Similarly, for biofuels such as ethanol, any potential climate benefit is entirely upstream on land where feedstocks are grown. Biofuels have no benefit downstream, where used as motor fuels, because their tailpipe CO2 emissions differ only trivially from those of gasoline,” he wrote.

He’s painting a picture that can be bleak and depressing. At the end of the day, stakeholders in this field must stay well informed and effectively get the word out on their green transportation campaigns. That requires adopting strategies that have a good chance of accomplishing their intended goals. Using hybrids and highly fuel-efficient vehicles is part of reducing emissions. Natural gas, electricity, propane autogas, ethanol, biodiesel, and hydrogen – in their current realities – are far from perfect or ideal. You could think of it as “transitional fuels” that are a step forward away from petroleum and have their role to play in reducing carbon emissions, job creation and economic growth, and curing our addiction to oil. Electricity made from 100% renewables, algae and cellulosic biofuels, renewable natural gas, and hydrogen extracted from clean sources, are targets to aim for – but they’re still a long ways off.

AFVResale.com offering a much-needed channel for green vehicle resale process

AFV ResaleAFVResale.com is offering a service to alternative fuel vehicle owners that plays a major role in acquisition and lifecycle cost analysis – resale values. Launched last year, the site is offering a platform for alt-fuel vehicle owners, primarily fleets, to remarket used green vehicles and for buyers to find competitive deals on vehicles that are not easy to find at auctions or dealerships.

Propane autogas-powered vehicles has been the leading category on the site so far. Greg Zilberfarb, CEO and president of TSN Communications, the parent company of AFVResale.com, has worked closely for several years with leading companies and organizations in the field, including Roush CleanTech and Propane Education & Research Council; TSN Communications has worked with other alternative fuel organizations including the National Biodiesel Board. Electric vehicles have also been sold on the site.

Cummins is using the site to market its Ford compressed natural gas unit vehicles, and sales have been taking off, Zilberfarb said. Icom North America has also been selling on AFVResale.com, primarily propane-powered school buses in alliance with its partner, bus maker Blue Bird. Sellers are listing a number of used vehicles for sale, such as a propane-powered 2012 E25D Cargo Van. Buyers can find specification details to answer their questions and find out where the vehicle is located.

AFVResale.com was designed to be a straightforward platform for buyers and sellers to meet and do business. Zilberfarb says it’s a very simple sales process where anyone can create an account and post pre-owned alternative-fuel vehicles. Buyers can make a bid directly to the seller through the posted contact information. Vehicles are usually listed with photos, and buyers can contact the seller to negotiate the selling price. It’s a good platform for companies in the business to market themselves through detailed vehicle listings and photos, and through paid advertisements on the site.

Zilberfarb sees volatile gasoline and diesel prices as the key market driver for remarketing alt-fuel vehicles. The number of visitors to AFVReseale.com continues to increase. Zilberfarb is enthusiastic about the site being home to a growing community of alternative fuel vehicle buyers and sellers looking for the best opportunities in the marketplace.

BMW says it’s not taking on Tesla for luxury EV buyers, but who’s kidding who?

BMW i3 and i8“Revenge of the Electric Car” was a must-see in 2011 – the sequel to the influential “Who Killed the Electric Car?” shifted gears and explored who might become the iconic leader of the reincarnated electric vehicle market – Tesla’s Elon Musk, GM’s Bob Lutz, Nissan’s Carlos Ghosn, or custom electric car do-it-yourselfer Greg “Gadget” Abbott. While watching the movie, I kept wondering:  What about BMW?

BMW was testing out the Mini E with US drivers during the time the Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Volt made it to the market. Next came the BMW ActiveE and now the BMW i3, and the i8 plug-in hybrid is next. Maybe the problem was the German automaker didn’t have any recognized US “car guy” celebrity to star in a movie? Well, the game is changing and BMW is poised to take on Tesla Motors for market share in the luxury electric vehicle market – even if BMW or Tesla doesn’t admit that being the case.

BMW says that’s its upcoming i8 sports car is not competing directly with the Tesla Model S. It’s a supercar of the future with the driving performance of the BMW M3, and the plug-in hybrid gets more than 80 miles per gallon, BMW says. The i8 is being shown at the Frankfurt auto show next month and will go on sale in the US in early 2014. Pricing hasn’t been released but it’s going to be steep – something less than $150,000. BMW is obviously paying attention to how well the Tesla Model S has been doing this year in sales performance. BMW says that the i8 and Model S will be reaching different buyers – but both automakers are clearly targeting sophisticated, high-income consumers. Incentives/rebates do apply, but that doesn’t really matter much at these price points. Leasing takes some of the edge off of it, but it’s still got a limited market potential. German luxury automakers have known this for years but have been committed to battling competitors (including Japanese luxury brands) for more share.

What about the BMW i3 versus the Model S? It doesn’t appear to be competing directly with the Model S. The i3 is a hatchback with a starting price of $42,275 versus the Model S sedan that starts at about $70,000. It might be more comparable to the Tesla Model X crossover that will be launched in 2014 for a starting price around $35,000. Tesla says it will go 200 miles on a charge, while the i3 gets 80 to 100 miles on a charge. The i3 is getting a lot of raves out in the automotive media and cleantech space – it’s the first in the series of BMW electric cars and the German automaker has been masterful at marketing its image – tying into BMW’s legacy as a high-performance carmaker and also tapping into the grand theme of global urbanization, as depicted in the photo above.

During a recent investor quarterly conference call, Tesla CEO Elon Musk chuckled when asked by an analyst about the BMW i3. It wasn’t clear what was so funny with Musk and a group of co-workers inside the conference call room, but he is known for putting down competitors (just ask Henrik Fisker). “I’m glad to see did BMW is bringing in electric car to market. That’s cool. There’s room to improve on the i3 and I hope that they will,” Musk said.

 

Toyota had an especially good green car sales month in July

Toyota Prius - Sea Glass PearlHere’s how US green vehicle sales fared during the month of July….

  • Toyota had a very strong sales month overall with a 17% increase over June, bumping out Ford’s place on the ranking list for the first time since March 2010. The Prius family played a big role in the outcome with a 40% increase and sales of 23,294 units for its best sales month ever.
  • Plug-in electric vehicle sales were fairly strong during the month and are moving closer to the 100,000 units sales mark for the year – they’re averaging more than 7,000 a month but were down to about 5,900 in July.
  • The Nissan Leaf beat the Chevy Volt in sales volume – 1,864 units sold for the Leaf versus 1,788 for the Volt.
  • They’re running neck-to-neck so far this year with the Leaf slightly out in front – 11,703 for the Leaf and 11,643 for the Volt.
  • The Leaf has shot way up in sales this year – more units sold in the US in 2013 than during all of 2011 or 2012. The Volt has been keeping pace with last year but moved ahead – it’s now nearly 1,000 Volts ahead of last year’s 10,666 units sold in the first seven months.
  • The Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid is still ahead of Ford – 817 units sold in July versus 433 of the Ford C-Max Energi and 407 of the Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrids.
  • The Chevrolet Spark EV sold 103 units in July in California and Oregon only. It’s doing a little bit better than other “compliance cars” in sales – the Mitsubishi i-MiEV sold 46 units, the Smart Electric Drive hit 58, and the Honda Fit EV had 63 units leased out. The Spark was behind two other electric vehicles – the Ford Focus EV at 150 units and the Toyota RAV4 EV at 109. Yet, the Spark was only in its second month on the market and only in two markets.

 

Big Picture: BMW i3 makes a splash, Attack of the drones, Plus more

Green Auto Market tree swing imageHere’s a few interesting happenings from the past week…..

  1. BMW unveiled its long-anticipated all-electric i3 hatchback. The German automaker has slowly been testing out electric drivetrains through its Mini Cooper subsidiary and through its ActiveE demonstration model. BMW hosted a series of elaborate events for the i3 on Monday in London, New York, and Beijing. It’s expected to price at $41,350 (plus a $925 delivery charge) in the US prior to incentives. It’s impressing analysts who see the automaker taking the technology very seriously, including investing $2.7 billion into it so far. The i3 can travel about 100 miles on a charge, and there’s also an optional diesel or gasoline range extender package you can buy that allows the car to travel about 300 miles. BMW has utilized lighter materials to extend the range; it’s built on a carbon-fiber based shell and an aluminum chassis.

Competitors will include other luxury brands with alternative technologies such as Lexus hybrid models, though it’s expected to be targeted primarily against German competitors in the home market. The most direct competition overseas will be Tesla Motors. The most popular version of its Model S is pricing at around $70,000. It will take until late 2014 for Tesla’s Model X crossover to come out and go more direct with the i3 in styling and pricing.

  1. Electric vehicle charging station maker AeroVironment just won a contract with the Federal Aviation Administration to use its drone for commercial purposes. It’s the first time this has happened, similar to Elon Musk’s SpaceX becoming the first civilian aerospace company to contract with NASA. AeroVironment has been providing its Puma 13-pound unmanned aircraft for military reconnaissance for several years. Now the Puma will be used to monitor oil spills and wildlife observation in the Arctic Circle. AeroVironment thinks its drone models can be used for other applications, like traffic monitoring, police surveillance, and storm tracking.

This is yet another example of robotics and autonomous systems striding forward. It’s similar to driverless cars being tested across the country, and several other advanced technologies. For those with ominous feelings about Big Brother and the Terminator taking over, you might want to get over it. There’s no going back.  

  1. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are on the verge of another breakthrough. UK-based ITM Power has figured out how to reduce the production cost of hydrogen by nearly 33% — from $9.57 per kilogram last year to $6.44 per kg. This includes a 10-year amortization period where its anticipated to drop to $4.13/kg – another 23% drop. The gain is coming from new, more efficient “stacks” – where hydrogen is extracted from electrolysis. Fuel cell vehicles will become much more affordable to fuel up. Now, if they just figure out a way to inexpensively install a lot of hydrogen fueling stations…..
  1. Japanese automakers are working together to install a lot more charging stations in Japan. The current number is about 1,700 fast chargers and more than 3,000 regular chargers; that’s expected to grow to more than 4,000 fast chargers and more than 8,000 regular stations. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and Mitsubishi jointly announced their agreement to work together to promote the installation of chargers for electric-powered vehicles and build a charging network service that offers more convenience to drivers in Japan. There will probably be a universal card-based system for charging at many of the stations. The announcement doesn’t mention it, but the fast chargers will be CHAdEMO chargers, which are used mainly in Japan. In North America and Europe the SAE combo charger is the norm.
  1. Electric Drive Transportation Association just brought in new board members and officers. Tanvir Arfi, president of Bosch Automotive Service Solutions, takes over as the new chair. He succeeds Mary Ann Wright, VP of engineering and product development for Johnson Controls, Inc. A former chair, Ted Craver, president and CEO of Edison International, was honored during proceedings. New board members represent a diverse list of technology suppliers to electric drive transportation – ABB, Inc.; Autowatts; Schneider Electric; Qualcomm; Real Power; Odyne Systems; BASF; and CenterPoint Energy.
  1. Biodiesel has worries to deal with; Mercedes-Benz is pulling out of the Illinois market after state lawmakers approved incentives to boost demand for biodiesel. Mercedes-Benz is concerned that if the fuel is poorly blended, it could gunk up its engines and worsen air quality. The German automaker has set a limit of B5, or 5% biodiesel content, and the state’s sales tax revision is focused on biodiesel of at least 10% blend.

Goodbye car guys, hello smart transportation players

traffic in LAThere’s more evidence that change is in the air, when it comes to car ownership in America.

The University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI) just released two studies on the issues. One study showed by that the rate of vehicle ownership on a per-person, per-household, and per-licensed driver basis peaked in 2006 prior to the Great Recession. Another UMTRI study found that there’s been a significant decline in vehicle miles traveled – those numbers peaked in 2004.

The studies have found change is due to increased telecommuting, higher use of public transportation, greater urbanization, and changes in the ages of drivers. A big one is Gen-Y/Millenials losing interest in drivers; only 28% of 16-year-olds had driver’s licenses in 2010, compared with 44% in 1980, according to UMTRI. Miles driven by young people 16-to-34 years old also dropped quite a bit – 23% between 2001 and 2009. Older drivers also play into it – they make up the majority of drivers on American roads and are tending to drive shorter distances.

Expanded transit systems and bike-share networks are also playing into less miles driven behind the wheel. Bicycle commuting in the US grew by 47% between 2000 and 2011, and at much higher levels in a few bike-friendly cities.

As recently reported in Green Auto Market, Southern California is once again the bellwether of changes in transportation trends.

  • Light rail has been expanded 26% in the past eight years. Bike lane networks have doubled to 292 miles. Bus and train ridership is growing – up nearly 5% in May 2013 versus May 2011.
  • Even more significant – the total number of passenger cars has declined in Los Angeles. The market rebounded from the recession, but the 2012 sales numbers were 28,000 less than five years earlier.

Transportation alternatives, sometimes called Smart Transportation, are gaining a lot more interest in sprawling urban environments. It’s tied to consumer interest in…..

  • Carsharing, vanpooling, and group transportation modes.
  • Alternative vehicle technologies including plug-ins, hybrids, and alternative fuels.
  • Bike lanes and safety gear for bicyclists.
  • Light rail and busing.
  • Living closer to work and retail stores with more foot traffic – and less annoyance with finding parking spaces and being charged fees for them. Plus more telecommuting through the latest technologies.
  • Eventually, advanced vehicle technologies are expected to play a larger role in the solution through autonomous vehicles that can park themselves and eventually driverless cars. Safety, reduced traffic congestion, and cleaner air are typically cited reasons for moving forward in these breakthroughs.

Why Robert Downey Jr. tapped into Tesla’s Elon Musk for “Iron Man” character

Robert Downey Jr in Iron ManWant to grow your market capitalization five times in less than a year, up to $15 billion in market value? Well then, get a celebrity to head your company. Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk has become an expert at grabbing regular-and-social media attention; whether that be through unveiling the Supercharger fast chargers for the Model S or teasing the public with his Hyperloop transportation concept that can make it from San Francisco to Los Angeles in 45 minutes.

“Iron Man” director Jon Favreau and Elon Musk himself say that Robert Downey Jr. did, in part, base his superhero character Tony Stark on the CEO of Tesla Motors and SpaceX, and a co-founder of PayPal. This character is a true entrepreneur – a big risk taker with a big ego who will bet everything to change the world, according to Rocketboom. Musk heads SpaceX, the first civilian space travel company to link up with the international space station, which took place in May 2012. He’d done very well in taking Tesla public and seeing the stock price skyrocket soon after its first quarter earnings were announced.

Tesla’s market cap recently made it equal to Italy’s Fiat and France’s PSA Peugot Citroen combined, says The Detroit Bureau, and it was added to the Nasdaq 100 stock index. That can certainly change day to day in stock trading; more recently, Tesla stock tumbled 14% after an ominous report from Goldman warning that its stock was overvalued. Tesla’s stock prices had been surging since its first quarter earnings report – and that was the first quarterly profit for the company.

General Motors CEO Dan Akerson has his eye on how well Tesla Motors performs; he thinks it has the potential to be a disruptive force to the automotive industry and he doesn’t want to be caught off guard. Akerson assigned a small team to study Tesla and how it might threaten GM’s business.

A few reasons I think Tesla Motors is seeing Model S sales grow, and that stock prices could stay above $100 a share…

  1. Musk and his staff – including former chief strategist at Apple’s retail stores, George Blankenship – have been highly skilled at going viral with their messaging for a pretty small marketing spend. Musk is addicted to Twitter, and the company is great at teasing the media and their audience with unveiling events.
  2. Tesla showrooms grab your attention. Dealer associations may win in the courtroom, but Tesla is placing enough retail stores in the style of Apple to inspire rabid fans.
  3. Ride and drive events –They’ve been skillfully scheduled and promoted. Once you get behind the wheel of the Model S, it’s easy to get hooked.
  4. They’re very good at utilizing Musk’s looks and charisma in interviews and TV guest appearances. Elon Musk has his fans on Wall Street, along with bloggers and Twitter followers who dig superheroes.
  5. Great product:  Sit in a Model S and check out its double screen dashboard, connectivity and functionality, and feel its powerful torque once you press the pedal, and you’ll be very impressed. Consumer Reports just gave the Model S its highest rating, with 99 out of 100 points.
  6. If the price is too high, check out the funding deals through its “revolutionary” financing package. Guaranteed resale value is also helping close deals.

Stay tuned for more info on fast-as-the-speed-of-light Hyperloop. “Will publish Hyperloop alpha design by Aug 12,” Musk posted on his Twitter page. Musk first mentioned the Hyperloop a year ago at a PandoDaily event in Santa Monica, Calif. – what he called a “fifth mode of transportation” and what he thinks is a cross between a Concorde, a railgun, and an air hockey table. He estimated it would cost about $6 billion to build a San Francisco-to-Los Angeles Hyperloop; that’s only about a tenth the cost of a plan that’s been floating around the state for years for a proposed high speed rail between the two cities. There’s a partnership that he may be developing a working relationship with – a company that could potentially build the Hyperloop to go 4,000 miles per hour. Pretty exciting stuff.

Volvo may have quietly changed history unveiling its DME-powered trucks

This could be a pivotal moment in alternative fuel vehicle history, up there with the Prius coming to America in 2000, and the Leaf and Volt being launched in late 2010.

Volvo Trucks is commercializing dimethyl ether (DME)-powered heavy duty trucks in North America, and here are a few things you should know about it:

  1. It has the performance qualities and energy efficiency of diesel but can lower CO2 emissions by 95%. Let me say that again – 95%! Natural gas reduces greenhouse gas/C02 emissions 20% to 25% compared to diesel.
  2. It produces no soot, which is a commonly referenced downside of diesel (including clean diesel). Because it produces no soot, no diesel particulate filter is necessary.
  3. The fuel comes from a variety of domestic, sustainable sources such as biogas from food and animal waste, wasterwater treatment facilities, and landfills.
  4. The fuel can also be tapped and converted from North America’s vast supply of natural gas. This would address the distribution, storage, and fueling challenges faced by natural gas vehicles – dealing with what NGVs face and also contributing to solutions; along with benefiting from a domestic fuel source that doesn’t have to be imported from a hostile overseas market.
  5. The fuel is stored in lighter, simpler fuel tanks and lower psi systems than what’s needed for LNG and CNG systems. It’s similar to propane-powered vehicles in that regard.
  6. DME has been on the market for years as an aerosol propellant in cosmetics and other household products. It’s a clean, non-toxic fuel.

It’s part of Volvo’s “Blue Power” alternative fuel strategy, and has been through ongoing US customer field testing of trucks powered by DME. It was demonstrated to an audience after being announced recently in Sacramento at the California state capitol building. The DME technology will be available in a Volvo D13 engine, the top-selling heavy-duty engine in the world. While not specified in its announcement, it appears that this alternative fuel will operate directly in Volvo Trucks’ engines with only minor modifications for fuel tanks.

Blue Power was started in 2007 in Brussels when Volvo showcased seven commercial vehicles powered by seven different CO2-neutral fuels, one of which was DME. More recently, Oberon Fuels has developed small-scale production units that can cost-effectively convert biogas and natural gas into DME. The first of Oberon’s innovative production units will go online this month in California’s Imperial Valley region and is being tested with Safeway. Oberon’s small-scale production units enable the development of regional fuel markets that service local customers engaged in regional haul, initially bypassing the need for a national infrastructure, the company said on its website.

Volvo Trucks is still committed to CNG and LNG offerings as well – its lineup already includes CNG-powered Volvo VNM and VNL model daycabs. The company is also producing its own proprietary LNG engine in VNL daycabs and sleepers next year.

Will DME makes its way to light-duty passenger vehicles? Very good question. AB Volvo split between cars and heavy trucks in 1999 when Ford bought the car division. Chinese company Geely Automobile bought Volvo Cars from Ford in 2010. Perhaps Volvo Trucks and Volvo/Geely could work together on it? I would imagine it’s possible that the alternative fuel and its storage tank could be made ready to go into gasoline-burning engines, though that may take a while to be workable. The large fuel tank could be prohibitive for passenger cars and more applicable to trucks – which is the case for propane as well.